“My Music Is Screaming”

Celebrating 10 years of DJC⏳️

"What I'm saying in my music is I'm screaming out. I'm screaming for help. I'm asking people to listen and pay attention, I'm asking them to feel my anger, I'm asking them to feel my pain." - Anthony “Big Ant” McKinney 💔

Today we revisit an interview with Die Jim Crow EP artist Anthony “Big Ant” McKinney, who is currently incarcerated in Ohio. This interview was originally published in the Die Jim Crow EP Book (2016 1st edition), in the chapter on Ant’s ballad “Tired & Weary.” Listen below.

collage by Fury Young

Interview with Anthony “Big Ant” McKinney
Preface and Interview by Fury Young
Questions by Sasha Cohen

The first letter I got from Anthony McKinney was on a Tuesday — July 29, 2014. I received the letter through jpay, an email service for folks in prison. Ant had recorded a demo version of his song “Tired & Weary” that Dr. Catherine Roma had sent me, with a note explaining Anthony’s interest in the project. Roma and I had been in touch because of her work with the UMOJA choir at Warren Correctional Institution, which she had founded and taught for over twenty years, mostly as a volunteer. I listened to “Tired & Weary” and thought it had potential, and that if reworked lyrically to fit the storyline of Die Jim Crow, it would fit well.

Ant reached out and I was happy to hear from him. He seemed like a friendly guy with a contagiously positive attitude. He loved the project and wanted to participate. Our correspondence began by discussing the concept of Die Jim Crow in greater detail, as Anthony had many questions and ideas. It was a couple months later when I asked Anthony if he was in prison for a crime he did not commit. I thought he must be if what he sung in “Tired & Weary” was true:

Dead man walkin’ in those penitentiary shoes / I ain’t kill no damn body, they put me on the news / Charge me for a body, I damn near cried the blues / Gave me 28 to life and I got everything to lose....

As our creative partnership and friendship grew, so did my knowledge about his case. I did research of my own and came to find that his innocence seemed highly likely; I believed him. I began to help Anthony with his case and I continue to do so. I mention this to draw light on the fact that there are many people in prison who are innocent, wrongfully convicted, or blatantly ill-sentenced, and they are often desperately in need of help. If you are in a position to help someone in this predic- ament, do it!

Ant’s railroad-of-a-case aside, I was impressed by his musical talent and his reworked version of “Tired & Weary,” which fit the vibe of Die Jim Crow to a T : a flashback to the night of the murder, a courtroom scene, and a Twista style rap seemingly out of nowhere. I was sold.

Flash-forward nearly two years and Ant is now officially a featured artist on the Die Jim Crow project with the release of “Tired & Weary” — which he sings, plays guitar, and drums on. Ant’s vocals lend intensity to “Headed to the Streets,” which he co-composed and eats on the drums. “First Impressions” features Ant on guitar, and he’s also behind the kit on “A215-162.”

On a clear Sunday afternoon in March, Anthony called me up and we had one of our flowing conversations. This time it took the form of a structured interview. Unsurprisingly, it got deep.

Sunday March 27, 2016, Noon

Ant: What’s up with it?

Fury: Hey, what up? You should probably call me later today if you can because we’re gonna have a lot to talk about, but I wanna jump right into the Q&A.

Ant: Alright, yup.

Fury: So the first question is, what is your earliest memory of music?

Ant: My earliest memory of music... [thinks for awhile] My earliest memory is my grandma singing to me a gospel song. The one I remember is “Get out of that bed! Wash your face and hands... get in that kitchen makin’ noise with the pots and pans...” She used to sing that to me. So probably my grandma with spiritual music, gospel.

Fury: Can you remember the first song that ever moved you, and why?

Ant: I probably don’t remember the first song but my first reaction to what you’re asking me — the first thing that comes to my mind is Jodeci.

Fury: I knew you were gonna say that!

Ant: Yeah?

Fury: Yeah I just had a psychic feeling!

Ant: [laughs] Yeah. . . or like my uncle used to play “Mama Said Knock You Out” by LL Cool J, that’s what I remember . . . Or Kwamé, stuff like that.

Fury: Do you remember how they made you feel?

Ant: I love R&B music. I was drawn to that more than rap. R&B makes me feel love, it makes me wanna love, because I’m a loving person. I’m attracted to music that has a lot of love in it. So love music is my thing.

Fury: How has music helped you during your time in prison?

Ant: Well for example, certain songs — my cellie said, “man you’re playing that song to death,” like this Tank song, it’s called “You’re One.” I played that for about a month straight, and it got me through whatever I was going through. And right now I’m listening to Bryson Tiller, his whole album, and I’m wearing it out. Certain music just gets me through things.

Fury: What about your own music? How has that helped you do time? “Tired & Weary,” “Humble” [“A Humble Request,” an unreleased DJC song by McKinney], and playing the guitar?

Ant: Well my songs actually relate to my life, basically I’m just so happy to be able to express my truth. To express the truth about what’s going on with me and my life — my actual innocence. So just to have an opportunity to be able to express that. You know I love my music, I always want to make it better, but I do what I do and hope other people enjoy it, it helps me get through —

[Robot cuts in on phone: This call is originating from an Ohio correctional facility and may be recorded and monitored.]

Ant: [continues] It helps me get through because I can express myself and what I’m going through.

Fury: So would you say in that same way Die Jim Crow has helped you with that — with expressing your creativity — does that feel good for you?

Ant: Man, let me tell you, Die Jim Crow is music but it’s also a movement to me. It’s a part of my life now, and I’ma always represent that. It’s part of me now, so when you see me you see Die Jim Crow, and it’s gonna help me — you Fury, you’ve helped me come so far in this struggle that I’m in, and I feel comfortable fighting — I just feel like somebody got my back. I feel like I got another fire flighter behind me, like the jet planes that shoot missiles. I feel like you’re one of those behind me, and I’m going forward, I’m leading, and you’re busting right behind me when I need protection. So that’s how I feel about Die Jim Crow and that’s how I feel about you as a whole — you are Die Jim Crow, we are Die Jim Crow, and we’re gonna represent that until I get out of here — and after.

Fury: Definitely after too. It’s just beginning bro.

Ant: Definitely after. Yeah man. I’m with you, we’re doing this all the way.

Fury: Yes. Thank you bro. My next question is, what is your process when writing a song?

Ant: Well, I like to add the words as I go. I sing the words and I think about what I want to say or what situation I’m bringing — which is a harder process. I’m trying to learn a different style of writing, just putting my words down and then trying to put it together — but I just kind of go as I flow and think about what I wanna say and put it in there somehow and it just ties all together on its own, it just fits, it’s a true story.

Fury: Well it was a really interesting process we had with “Tired & Weary” that I think worked out really well, because the song started out being really general about your experience with the system and holding on to hope and faith, and then I said, “Well it’s gonna be on the album at this part — with the sentencing part,” then you went back in and you added all those lyrics, and you added the rap, and “chillin’ the spot with my girl...,” and it just became this whole other beast.

Ant: Yeah.

Fury: So I was definitely impressed by that.

Ant: Yeah, most definitely man. It’s real man. I finally looked at the song at the end of it, and I said, “Man, all of it fits!” You know I never really checked to see how it fit and ran into place, but I finally looked at it and said, “Everything goes together, everything fits!” — Because it’s just truth. I ain’t the best artist or the best rapper or the best singer but it’s my heart on there, laying out on there.

Fury: I cannot wait for you to hear that man.

Ant: Whaaaaaat!

Fury: Yeah I can’t wait. So what did you think of “Headed to the Streets,” you just heard that right?

Ant: Oh my god . . . man, oh man, “Headed To The Streets,” oh my god... man I’m talking about — I’m so proud of Monique [BL Shirelle], she is off the chain, she’s definitely gonna blow. I really enjoyed her on there. I listened to myself also, I listened to the drums and the hi hats spit, and I also paid attention to your production and how you told me to lay on the track and do certain things. Man I really appreciate your production skills and how you put it down, and it wasn’t just all me, it was you too, so when you hear me on that track you should hear Fury Young on that track too, you feel me? So I love it man.

Man I love the part “Without a call back, I’ll make a little wealth” — that shit is so bomb!

Ant: Uhhhhh, that’s hot ain’t it!

Fury: And then you heard that guitar we put in there [makes chord noise]? That chord we laid on top of that?

Ant: Yeah that guitar nasty, I love it man!

Fury: And then at the end... oh my god...

Ant: I wish we had more time to do the rap part, but ultimately it came out good anyway. But I wish I wasn’t limited to time, being I’m locked up, but it’s real nice — man that hi hat in there spittin’! I’d like to turn that up a little bit, I hit you up in the email about that though.

Fury: Yeah. Well I think the song is pretty much done it just needs some little mixing touches like that. But anyway let me get back to the interview because I got a few more questions — so what would you like people to take from your music? How would you like it to inspire people or make them feel?

Ant: Well, I always wanted to be an artist and a musician. With time and chance, my opportunity came with you, with Die Jim Crow man — representing all day. I want people to take from my music, I want people to love my music, and that’s my true desire. It’s really about people loving my music and enjoying it and being happy and making them feel good. I want to be able to leave this earth knowing somebody loves for me something, for something that I inspired in somebody, and with music — when you give people wisdom and knowledge, I think that’s the most important thing. To make people feel good and educate them, inspire them.

Fury: Would you also say you want people to feel some of the indignance and the frustration and anger — the righteous anger I should say — that you’ve felt being an innocent man in prison, especially with the song —

[Robot cuts in on phone: This call is originating from an Ohio correctional facility and may be recorded and monitored.]

Fury: Especially about expressing that on songs like “Tired & Weary.” Is it just about feeling good for you or are there also some other emotions like passion and anger and indignance?

Ant: I’m glad you brought that up, because that’s the most important part of it — I was being modest — but at the same time, what I’m saying in my music is I’m screaming out, I’m screaming for help. I’m asking people to listen and pay attention, I’m asking them to feel my anger, I’m asking them to feel my pain. They’re doing me so wrong — when I got evidence! — I can show the world I didn’t do this, and I need the world to open their eyes and open their ears and listen to me like, “Hey — I’m talking to you, I need your help.” And that’s important; that I’m asking for love, I’m asking people to open their hearts up and minds, and say, “Hold on, this is the right thing to do — let’s get him out of here — because he can show us that he is right, and he didn’t commit this crime.” And that’s what my music is, it’s screaming help, please help me. And that is right, Fury, yeah.

Fury: Um, that’s pretty deep man.

Ant: Yeah man.

Fury: So, actually, my next question was do you have any fantasies about what this project might develop into long term and how it might affect your sentencing, but you sort of tackled that a little bit — but maybe you could talk about some of your fantasies that you can see with Die Jim Crow long term?

Ant: I see Die Jim Crow being big. I really wanna use it as an opportunity to do what I want to do in life — and that’s a career in music. I also want to be an attorney, but I want to sing to people about case law, and how to protect your family members, and teach people how to be a juror, a real juror, and not be misled by the courts, and I want to sing about that stuff.

But I also want to be somebody — and I am somebody — but I just want the opportunity to do it —

[Robot cuts in: You have one minute remaining.]

Ant: I really want to do something big with Die Jim Crow, and my word is and my promise is that I will help other people. I will put other people in position to be able to help theyselves and help other people that are incarcerated. And help you make your dream come true. Because we’re a team. And I want to make this bigger than what it is, it’s already big and it’s blowing up, so I wanna use it as a pedestal to get up and help others and bring other people up with us. Let’s do this man, let’s get these innocent guys out of prison, let’s help these younger kids. That’s what I wanna do, and I’ll use that and that’s my word and that’s a promise.

Fury: Thank you. Thank you for the interview, it was beautiful.

Ant: For sure, man, for sure. You said you want me to hit you back up today sometime?

Fury: I’ll be working all day so hit me whenever you can.

Ant: Okay that sounds good. You got my email right?

Fury: Yeah I did.

[Robot: Thank you for using Global Tel Link.]